Author Topic: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions  (Read 8963 times)

Alex

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Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« on: May 08, 2015, 10:44:40 PM »
If you have any feedback, requests or suggestions, please post them in this thread.
I will read all of them and take into consideration what has been said when developing Crocotile 3D.

Please include what you like about the software along with anything you don't like.

Blackbeltdude

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2015, 06:30:08 PM »
Hi! I found this software via a game developer's facebook group. It's pretty cool, and it looks like it might turn into something perfect for a project that I'm working on.

I'm still learning the software, so I'm not terribly proficient in it just yet, but I've got some experience with some other 3D programs (Cinema 4D, Maya, Blender) and with the 2D tiling program Tiled. Crocotile so far reminds me more of Tiled than typical 3D software, which is perfect as far as I'm concerned. In general, I'd recomend looking at what Tiled does for it's Interface and mimicking a good deal of it here.

I can tell you're early on in development with this, but I really like what I see so far, so I went ahead and bought it. I'd like to use this for a gaming I'm developing, so I have some suggestions. I have a feeling you probably have some of these planned and it's also possible that some of these might be in already and I don't know how to use them.


1. I'd like to be able to define a "floor" space, so that I can start off with a "fill" for the floor.

2. I'd also like to be able to make a "sky."

3. I'd like the option to place a tile in a dimension, and then have it exist there from all angles. Right now if I place a tile on an axis, I can only see it relative to where my camera was when I placed it (and I think I get why you've got it set up like this). But it'd be nice if when I placed a tile on an axis, it would be visible from all angles.

4. For tiles, that drag-able circle gets lost for me sometimes. I think you should really just give it a separate window with it's own scrollbar (in fact, I think this is the aspect that Tiled does so well). Then you could also give other options like zooming in on your tileset. In general, I'd reference Tiled for this:

http://www.mapeditor.org/

5. I'd love and option where I can click some UI buttons that instantly snap the camera to a pre-selected view (Front, Back, Right, Left, Top).

6. So for this next suggestion... I'm under the impression that I use the WASD keys to really determine where I'm placing tiles, but it gets a little confusing sometimes. It'd be good to have a "display grid" option, and probably some kind of differences between the world's XYZ axis and the movable one (thicker lines on one maybe).[/li][/list]



I'll probably think of some more suggestions the more I play around with it. :) I think it's really cool so far, and I can't wait to see what else you do with this!

Alex

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2015, 08:55:32 PM »
Excellent feedback, Blackbeltdude!
I will look at Tiled to see how they incorporate their tilesets.

[1] Defining a floor space is an interesting suggestion. Perhaps to make this more usable, the draw mode could have an option to draw single tiles, or tiled tiles(you would click and drag to create a rectangle of tiles).
Maybe there could be another option to draw the tile the same relative size as to the UV selection in the tileset (so if you select multiple tiles in the tileset, it would resize the tile in the scene view to accommodate this).
A fill tool sounds possible too- it could find tiles that share edges and fill them, etc. Maybe an option to lock the fill to tiles with the same angle- or select tiles and apply the fill to the selection.

[2] A sky.. Would this be just a background image? or are you thinking more like a skybox? I haven't given this much thought, so I'll need to think more about it. More feedback on this idea would be good.

[3] I have already thought about this suggestion- having tiles that would always face the camera. Since they would always face the camera, they wouldn't be exported as part of the 3d model. I think they would be considered more as sprite entities, and I'm not sure yet how I want to handle them. It would be useful to be able to export sprite entity data though, which could then be used in people's game projects, etc. Then it might begin to feel like a map editor, using entities to place for instance, spawn locations, triggers, etc. Thoughts on this would be good.

[4] I'll have to look into this.

[5] This should be pretty straightforward to implement- I'll put it on my list of things to do. Are ui buttons necessary? If I plan on adding more ui buttons, I will need to think of a way of doing it without cluttering the workspace up.

[6] I will consider this. I have thought about making the origin and crosshair lines different- so I will think more on how to do that. Having thicker lines might be tricky. As to a grid, how useful would this be? Is it mainly to see how far to space things? I'll have to brainstorm on how to implement a grid feature without creating too many lines that would clutter the space up.

Thanks for the feedback!

Blackbeltdude

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2015, 05:38:26 PM »
Thanks for getting back to me, Alex. :)

1. Most of these suggestions are with making a game in mind. Basically, I'll need to make a 3D environment, so being able to define the minimum size of it from the get-go would help. Like defining that a space is going to be 30 tiles long in all Axis, able to define how big a tile is, and then easily filling the space with a tile (walls, floor and ceiling). We'd probably need to define the sizes for each size of a "canvas-cube," since every 3D world would kind of exist within a cube.

2. For the sky, I'm not sure. In other projects and things I've done, I've actually mapped textures onto a sphere, and them put a world inside of that sphere for example. I don't know if that's the best solution though. Options for a static background image or a skybox would probably both be good. In a related note, it's possible that defining the "fog" and lighting might also be something to consider (I personally don't think it's mandatory, but the options could be nice).

3. I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding with this one. I've attached some screenshots to kind of show what I mean. Though, on a related note, the static sprite thing that you were talking about is also something that'd be great. :)

4. Great! :)

5. I think UI is going to be generally important. It can probably wind up being minimal (Again, Tiled has a good minimal UI to me for when I create maps with it). I know a lot of 3D programs can feel really overwhelming with their UI, but I think that's also because so many of them do so many things. If you keep Crocotile's focus on map editing like it is now though, I don't see why you couldn't keep the UI simple. If you have access to some 3D programs, I'd recommend taking a look at how they handle some of the UI that'd be useful to Crocotile (Blender is free and open source).

6. I think the origin lines could potentially relate back to defining your "canvas" size that we talked about with point number 1. If you're able to do that, I don't think an origin point matters, especially since you're not "calling" or generating things into the world. You could probably get rid of it. Since you're just placing things in the world via sprite sheet, you probably don't need the origin point. But a grid, so that you could see the size of your world that you defined (plus spacing), that would be the trade off. I'd say gray dotted or dashed lines that are semi-transparent could do the trick.

Thanks again, and I'm really loving the program!

Blackbeltdude

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2015, 05:39:01 PM »
Sorry, for the double post, but the attachments were too big otherwise.

Alex

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2015, 08:23:52 PM »
[1] So if I understand, this would basically only serve to prevent anything from being created/edited outside of the bounds of the cube? I could see this being useful. I see this as some sort of setting where you specify min/max for x,y,z axis.

[2] I'll have to give this more thought.

[3] Okay, so if I understand, you want the tiles to be visible on the back of the face? I could make an option to allow this. The reason I have it visible only on the front is so that the user isn't confused with the direction a tile is facing.

[5] As more features get added, extending the ui will be necessary. I'll try to keep it minimal though. I'll look at other programs to get inspiration but I don't want to fall into a standardized type of mindset since that could prevent me designing something better.

[6] An origin point matters because it gives relativity to where the tiles will appear when the scene is loaded and positioned as a whole.
I'm imagining some dots extending from the origin, to the 3d crosshair, and to the brush.

Again, thanks for the feedback!


Blackbeltdude

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2015, 10:10:39 PM »
1. I think it would do that, but personally for me, it also helps me in just general building of the stage. It would just give placement and the world more context. But yeah, I think there's probably a few other things that I'm not thinking of that make it useful. :)

2. Yeah, I'm not sure what would be best, but implementing a static background image is probably a good way to start the concept moving perhaps.

3. Yes! :) The main reason is because I have so much control of the camera, so it kind of messes with me when I don't see a side that I think should be there. I think if you add the quick-view buttons, that'll probably also help with showing it in space by default and making sure that the user ins't confused.

5. Sounds good. :)

6. Ah, I hadn't thought about that reason. I'm sure it'll be easier to talk more about this as you move further with development. :)

Looking forward to the next iterations!


mutenhoshi

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 07:43:18 PM »
Hi there,

nice tool, had to have it from the moment i saw the first screenshot ;)

A few things i would really recommend for smoother use:

[list  type=decimal]
[li]Tile dialog should be attachable, so when i minimize the program, it does not stay open (in front of all my programs)[/li]
[li]There is a bug in the tile dialog: selections on the left are not being marked by the outlined box. Painting works though[/li]
[li]There really should be an option for "reload tile" because this file changes often in the progress. Really is time consuming to have to walk though the file explorer all the time[/li]
[li]For Box select, there should be an option to select both sides (not only visible)[/li]
[li]An optional help overlay (just the infos from the webpage) would help[/li]
[li]Maybe an option to group objects so they can be selected faster (or an option to select connected faces)[/li]
[/list]

A lot, i know ;)

greetings from Berlin

hOSHI
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Alex

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 08:01:50 PM »
Hello,

Thanks for the feedback Hoshi!
There is an option in the settings that allows box select to select both sides. It is the "Camera based selection" setting. If you turn that off, then it will select both sides. You can also press B key on the keyboard and it should toggle it on/off (I will be adding a visual indicator/icon in the future to show whether it is off or on).

I will work on those other suggestions!
For refreshing the tilesets, would a single button that refreshes them be good enough? It would have to assume the filenames/locations have remained the same.
I like the idea of grouping tiles.

Thanks!
+Alex

mutenhoshi

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2015, 06:42:25 AM »
Sounds good to me ;)
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Alex

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2015, 05:28:06 AM »
v1.0.22 now has a button in tileset window to refresh the tilesets. This assumes the path is found. Saved scenes from previous versions of Crocotile3d won't have the tileset file paths recorded, so they will need to be replaced first before the refresh button will work for them.

I've also made the tileset window minimize when the main window is minimized, and fixed that selection bug.

I've put the grouping suggestion on my todo list, and I'll think about how to do the help overlay.

mutenhoshi

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2015, 07:49:00 AM »
_ That was fast!

Awesome ;)

Will try that later ;)

Is there Layer Support in Obj btw?
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Alex

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2015, 03:34:11 PM »
Each tileset essentially resides on its own layer. When you export, it looks at the currently selected tileset and finds all the tiles in the scene using that tileset and exports those to one .obj file. If you have multiple tilesets being used, you export each one to its own .obj file.
Is that what you're referring to as layer support? Or do you want all of them to be combined into one .obj?
I also plan to add some buttons to hide/show layers.
Let me know if you meant something else.

mutenhoshi

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2015, 03:45:06 PM »
Ah nice,
so usind different tilesets i can export multiple obj files?

I meant something like the layers in blender (or max and maya) where you can organise your scene in different layers.

Maybe it would be nice, if these grouped faces would function like objects. Maybe to be also visible in some kind of outliner.
Then it would be possible to organise and arrange them, copy and maybe reference them to save memory by not saving the same geometry a 1000 times.

But that would be an awful lot of work, i know ;)
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Alex

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Re: Feedback, Requests, & Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2015, 04:17:19 PM »
Yes, by using different tilesets you'll be able to export for each one, and the obj file will consist of geometry that was using that specific tileset.

Okay I understand the layers now.
I can probably implement a layering system like that, but I'll need to think more about how to integrate it.

My initial thought is to have tilesets determine the main layers and then allow sub-layers within those. That way geometry that uses one tileset won't be mixed with geometry that uses another tileset. I think that would keep things orderly.